A W Tozer- Our mistake is that we want God to send revival on our terms. We want to get the power of God into our hands, to call it to us that it may work for us in promoting and furthering our kind of Christianity. We want still to be in charge, guiding the chariot through the religious sky in the direction we want it to go, shouting “Glory to God,” but modestly accepting a share of the glory for ourselves in a nice inoffensive sort of way. We are calling on God to send fire on our altars, completely ignoring the fact that they are OUR altars and not God’s.
There have been a few questions about changes in theology over the last 20 years. Since I am now an older man, I have seen and experienced quite a bit of change over the years in my own beliefs, as you all are now experiencing. Let me first say, this is normal. As you all mature, have families and deal with issues, you change. “Your senses are being trained to discern good and evil Heb 5:14”. In my early days of coming out of the Jesus Revolution, we young people had an attitude toward older people. I did see these same things coming out of BRSM and FIRE. In our youthful zeal, we had the attitude God was anointing us as a new generation, WE had the anointing. I co-pastored a church in 1977 that was a charismatic church, I was 27 at the time. The average age of our congregation was 17 years old. It took me about three years to realize that I needed to sit under some older men that I knew, so I left the ministry to attend another church. Over the years I began having the realization that there were many men of God who were not charismatic and but had a powerful anointing. I was reading books by Leonard Ravenhill, Watchman Nee, AW Tozer and others. I stayed away from the current charismatic books that focused on the gifts of the Spirit, tongues, prophecy and other sorts of charismatic teachings. It did strike me, that after going to a Billy Graham rally, that this man had an anointing from God and was not charismatic. Charismatics would criticize AW Tozer because he didn’t have the Spirit. They would say, “Just think how powerful he would be if he had the Spirit”, Leonard Ravenhill called those people out saying, “Show me one charismatic preacher who could write a book like Tozer”. If you read Tozer’s books, he believed in the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I you read DL Moody’s book Secret Power, it is all about him receiving the Spirit, just not in the charismatic way. We must realize that all through history there were great men and great movements that were led by people who were not filled with the Holy Spirit in the same way that charismatic circles teach. People like Jonathan Edwards, Andrew Murray, DL Moody, William Booth, George Fox, Augustine, George Whitefield and the Wesleys all had a level of the Holy Spirit that gave them power for ministry. John Dowie had a huge healing ministry in the late 1800’s, long before the Azuza Street revival, and he did not embrace it. We need to ask the question; how did these men get power with God? Secret power comes from secret prayer. So rethinking your theology is a good thing, we need to mature as we learn to discern.
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I would like to express some thoughts on modern praise and worship. These are thoughts that have developed over 54 years of being a Christian musician and songwriter, and being a praise and worship leader during that time.
Amos 5:23-24 “Take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps. But let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream”.
It is a scary verse to come across, especially in our modern day where there is so much emphasis on music as worship. To realize that we too can offer songs unto the Lord that He is not pleased with, that we too can come to a point where God hates our gatherings (festivals v21), is scary. The songs, though possibly beautiful in melody, can lack the sincerity and righteousness that God requires. We tend to prefer the songs that align with our taste in music, rather than aligning with what God requires, or with the word of God. This serves as a reminder that praise, and worship must be heart felt and must be aligned with God’s will.
There is too much emphasis on the outward expression, and not enough on inward communion with God. Augustine wrote, “How many are loud in voice, dumb in heart! How many lips are silent, but their love is loud! For the ears of God are to the heart of man. As the ears of the body are to the mouth of man, so the heart of man is to the ears of God. Many are heard with closed lips, and many who cry aloud are not heard.”
I think of missionaries that I know in China, they cannot sing in their meetings for fear of being found out and arrested. They worship God at a different level, their commitment seems so much deeper than mine, I have not been tested in that way. Their outward worship does not make them the people of God, their inward worship does, trusting in His grace.
May we guard our hearts, all of us, but especially those of us who are musicians in the church. It is possible to be so focused on the outward expression of music, that we forget to have a real and obedient relationship with the Lord. If we offer just music to the Lord, it is not enough! Our lives must reflect our real relationship with the Lord. Praise offered from an obedient and loving heart will please the Lord.
Posted in Church in Crisis, Worship in Cirisis, Worship, Praise and Music | Tagged bible, biblical worship, god, god hates your music, jesus, praise, Worship, worshiptainment | Leave a Comment »
by David Ravenhill
Just the other day I was talking with a pastor friend of mine who made the comment that he had heard of 17 major ministries that had ‘fallen’ in the last few years. While this is nothing new, it appears that there is a growing moral problem that is more pervasive than any time in history. At no other time have we faced the temptation of being able to privately view ‘filth’ anywhere and at any time we desire on our personal phones. The porn industry is one of the largest industries in the world. Whoever gave it the name ‘web’ didn’t realize how prophetic they were in describing its power to grip its prey and not let go.
This generation came ‘out of the closet’ years ago and brazenly flaunted what previous generations had practiced but primarily kept hidden. All this to say we live in a sin sex-soaked society that no longer has any sense of shame in what they do or say. Unfortunately, many current leaders have had to battle with what is now a cultural norm.
With that in mind this brings me to the recent scandals plaguing the Body of Christ. While I am not personally acquainted with most of these men, I am familiar with one of them having spent several years ministering in the same organization. While it is not my purpose to further comment on these individuals, I do want to address what I feel is a double standard when it comes to passing judgment on them.
Having watched numerous YouTube videos of spiritual pundits who seem all too eager to throw the first stone; I’ve concluded that these pundits show little brokenness or sorrow toward these individuals but rather seem to delight in having been provided with more fodder to keep their own ministry on the air. Let’s face it, without these scandals they would have nothing to talk about.
When it comes to addressing Church problems, one would profit greatly from the advice and wisdom of Dr. G. Campbell Morgan in his book ‘The Letters of Our Lord.’ In the first chapter dealing with the Church of Ephesus he wrote the following.
‘Is it more than likely that their very opposition to false men and doctrine partook of the nature of lack of love? I would speak very cautiously at this point, for the Lord commended these things, and they were right, but I am quite sure that there may be right things done in a wrong spirit. I seldom find men strenuously fighting what they are pleased to call heterodox teaching, and in bitter language denouncing false doctrine, without being more afraid for the men denouncing than for the men denounced. There is an anger against impurity which is impure. There is a zeal for orthodoxy, which is most unorthodox. There is a spirit that contends for faith, which is in conflict with faith. If men have lost their first love, they will do more harm than good by their defense of the faith. Behind the denunciation of sin there must always be the tenderness of first love if that denunciation is not to become evil in its bitterness. Behind the zeal for truth there must always be the spaciousness of first love if that zeal is not to become narrowed into hate. There have been men who have become so self-centered in a narrowness that they are pleased to designate as holding the truth, that the very principle for which they contend has been excluded from their life and service. All zeal for the Master that is not the outcome of love to Him is worthless.’
My father use to say that “Jesus wept before He whipped” I don’t see too many tears from these pundits, but their whippings seem endless. I wonder if these fallen leaders were family members if they would be so quick to judge them?
Now please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not trying to treat these things in a lighthearted manner -they are tragic for all concerned. I can’t imagine the pain and shame their wives and family must be going through not to forget their church family who are now wrongly labeled guilty by association. Nor can I imagine being a victim and having to suffer the pain and shame of being taken advantage of by a so called ‘man of God’.
Now here is where I’m having trouble. Do I believe these individuals should be quarantined or placed in the penalty box? Yes I do! The question is for how long? Most pundits seem to agree ‘forever’ is the right discipline. Here is where I’m struggling. God exhorts us in His Word to judge righteous judgment. If the ‘lustful look ‘is akin to adultery as Jesus clearly taught us, then 95% of all ministers should step down immediately and permanently.
In the case of King David’s adultery, deceit and subsequent death of Uriah God took the life of King David’s and Bathsheba’s firstborn. However, when David’s pride caused him to number the size of his army; God’s judgement cost him seventy thousand men! His sin of passion cost him only one life, his sin of pride seventy thousand. (Interestingly enough when David was confronted and acknowledged his sin with Bathsheba he stated “I have sinned against the Lord.” However, when acknowledging his sin of pride David said, “I have sinned greatly or exceedingly.”)
I personally believe that while the sexual or sensual actions of these men was sinful and without excuse their pride was even more hideous in God’s sight. You can’t tell me that leading a mega church or large successful movement, doesn’t cause one to fall prey to pride, then you are totally ignorant of how the enemy works. When the disciples returned from a day of casting out demons Jesus warned them not to brag about their accomplishments but rather rejoice in His work of grace in their lives alluding to the fact that it was pride that brought about Satan’s fall and could also lead to their own.
There is a very insightful message from Saint Thomas Aquinas who wrote sometime around 1550. “..in order to overcome their pride, God punishes certain men by allowing them to fall into sins of the flesh, which though they be less grievous are more evidently shameful…pride is the worst of all vices; whether because it is appropriate to those who are of highest and foremost rank, or because it originates from just and virtuous deeds, so that its guilt is less perceptible. On the other hand, carnal lust is apparent to all, because from the outset it is of a shameful nature: and yet under God’s dispensation, it is less grievous than pride. For he who is in the clutches of pride and feels it not, falls into the lusts of the flesh, that being thus humbled he may rise from his abasement.
From this indeed the gravity of pride is made manifest. For just as the wise physician, in order to cure a worse disease, allows the patient to contract one that is less dangerous, so the sin of pride is shown to be more grievous by the fact that, as a remedy, God allows men to fall into other sins.”
Now back to my dilemma. Does sexual sin in a leader result in his permanent forfeiture of all future ministry? Is sexual sin a type of some unpardonable sin? If upon genuine remorse, repentance and restitution a leader is forever banned from ministry then his forgiveness is only partial and not complete. This would be akin to the prodigal joining the other servants but banned from every wearing the best robe, sandals and ring etc. If pride is overlooked as some minor issue but sexual sin results in total banishment from ministry, then we have failed to judge righteous judgement.
I have to ask myself, would I rather sit under the leadership of some successful pastor who has never fallen, but inwardly relishes thinking “I thank God I’m not like that man” or would I gain more by listening to another’s story of Amazing Grace from a truly repentant leader who walks with a limp? Just a thought!
Just the other day I was talking with a pastor friend of mine who made the comment that he had heard of 17 major ministries that had ‘fallen’ in the last few years. While this is nothing new, it appears that there is a growing moral problem that is more pervasive than any time in history. At no other time have we faced the temptation of being able to privately view ‘filth’ anywhere and at any time we desire on our personal phones. The porn industry is one of the largest industries in the world. Whoever gave it the name ‘web’ didn’t realize how prophetic they were in describing its power to grip its prey and not let go.
This generation came ‘out of the closet’ years ago and brazenly flaunted what previous generations had practiced but primarily kept hidden. All this to say we live in a sin sex-soaked society that no longer has any sense of shame in what they do or say. Unfortunately, many current leaders have had to battle with what is now a cultural norm.
With that in mind this brings me to the recent scandals plaguing the Body of Christ. While I am not personally acquainted with most of these men, I am familiar with one of them having spent several years ministering in the same organization. While it is not my purpose to further comment on these individuals, I do want to address what I feel is a double standard when it comes to passing judgment on them.
Having watched numerous YouTube videos of spiritual pundits who seem all too eager to throw the first stone; I’ve concluded that these pundits show little brokenness or sorrow toward these individuals but rather seem to delight in having been provided with more fodder to keep their own ministry on the air. Let’s face it, without these scandals they would have nothing to talk about.
When it comes to addressing Church problems, one would profit greatly from the advice and wisdom of Dr. G. Campbell Morgan in his book ‘The Letters of Our Lord.’ In the first chapter dealing with the Church of Ephesus he wrote the following.
‘Is it more than likely that their very opposition to false men and doctrine partook of the nature of lack of love? I would speak very cautiously at this point, for the Lord commended these things, and they were right, but I am quite sure that there may be right things done in a wrong spirit. I seldom find men strenuously fighting what they are pleased to call heterodox teaching, and in bitter language denouncing false doctrine, without being more afraid for the men denouncing than for the men denounced. There is an anger against impurity which is impure. There is a zeal for orthodoxy, which is most unorthodox. There is a spirit that contends for faith, which is in conflict with faith. If men have lost their first love, they will do more harm than good by their defense of the faith. Behind the denunciation of sin there must always be the tenderness of first love if that denunciation is not to become evil in its bitterness. Behind the zeal for truth there must always be the spaciousness of first love if that zeal is not to become narrowed into hate. There have been men who have become so self-centered in a narrowness that they are pleased to designate as holding the truth, that the very principle for which they contend has been excluded from their life and service. All zeal for the Master that is not the outcome of love to Him is worthless.’
My father use to say that “Jesus wept before He whipped” I don’t see too many tears from these pundits, but their whippings seem endless. I wonder if these fallen leaders were family members if they would be so quick to judge them?
Now please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not trying to treat these things in a lighthearted manner -they are tragic for all concerned. I can’t imagine the pain and shame their wives and family must be going through not to forget their church family who are now wrongly labeled guilty by association. Nor can I imagine being a victim and having to suffer the pain and shame of being taken advantage of by a so called ‘man of God’.
Now here is where I’m having trouble. Do I believe these individuals should be quarantined or placed in the penalty box? Yes I do! The question is for how long? Most pundits seem to agree ‘forever’ is the right discipline. Here is where I’m struggling. God exhorts us in His Word to judge righteous judgment. If the ‘lustful look ‘is akin to adultery as Jesus clearly taught us, then 95% of all ministers should step down immediately and permanently.
In the case of King David’s adultery, deceit and subsequent death of Uriah God took the life of King David’s and Bathsheba’s firstborn. However, when David’s pride caused him to number the size of his army; God’s judgement cost him seventy thousand men! His sin of passion cost him only one life, his sin of pride seventy thousand. (Interestingly enough when David was confronted and acknowledged his sin with Bathsheba he stated “I have sinned against the Lord.” However, when acknowledging his sin of pride David said, “I have sinned greatly or exceedingly.”)
I personally believe that while the sexual or sensual actions of these men was sinful and without excuse their pride was even more hideous in God’s sight. You can’t tell me that leading a mega church or large successful movement, doesn’t cause one to fall prey to pride, then you are totally ignorant of how the enemy works. When the disciples returned from a day of casting out demons Jesus warned them not to brag about their accomplishments but rather rejoice in His work of grace in their lives alluding to the fact that it was pride that brought about Satan’s fall and could also lead to their own.
There is a very insightful message from Saint Thomas Aquinas who wrote sometime around 1550. “..in order to overcome their pride, God punishes certain men by allowing them to fall into sins of the flesh, which though they be less grievous are more evidently shameful…pride is the worst of all vices; whether because it is appropriate to those who are of highest and foremost rank, or because it originates from just and virtuous deeds, so that its guilt is less perceptible. On the other hand, carnal lust is apparent to all, because from the outset it is of a shameful nature: and yet under God’s dispensation, it is less grievous than pride. For he who is in the clutches of pride and feels it not, falls into the lusts of the flesh, that being thus humbled he may rise from his abasement.
From this indeed the gravity of pride is made manifest. For just as the wise physician, in order to cure a worse disease, allows the patient to contract one that is less dangerous, so the sin of pride is shown to be more grievous by the fact that, as a remedy, God allows men to fall into other sins.”
Now back to my dilemma. Does sexual sin in a leader result in his permanent forfeiture of all future ministry? Is sexual sin a type of some unpardonable sin? If upon genuine remorse, repentance and restitution a leader is forever banned from ministry then his forgiveness is only partial and not complete. This would be akin to the prodigal joining the other servants but banned from every wearing the best robe, sandals and ring etc. If pride is overlooked as some minor issue but sexual sin results in total banishment from ministry, then we have failed to judge righteous judgement.
I have to ask myself, would I rather sit under the leadership of some successful pastor who has never fallen, but inwardly relishes thinking “I thank God I’m not like that man” or would I gain more by listening to another’s story of Amazing Grace from a truly repentant leader who walks with a limp? Just a thought!
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For a long time, scriptures have been used to promote a certain person’s own agenda. I remember years ago, and on many occasions, seeing how scriptures can be misused. It all started when a certain pastor was wanting to build a bigger church. He used Proverbs 29:18 to guilt people in to giving more money, “where there is no vision, the people perish”. Many who were not mature, and many who were, were sucked in by it. They were “sold” the “vision” and bought in to the hype that went along with it. I encourage you all to study that verse and look at the various translations.
I discovered there were Christian leaders who were “taking God’s name in vain” and very few people saw it. (Not that I am anything special) When a man twists the scripture to make you do something, that is “taking His name in Vain” because he is not doing it for the Lord, but for himself or for the “vision” for the church. Many prophetic words were given over Brownsville, BRSM and FIRE. Most of all those “words” never came to pass. I remember Past Cho from Korea proclaiming that the Brownsville revival would last until Jesus comes, everyone went crazy! Keep in mind, the command to not “take His name in vain”, was given to God’s people. So, when an unbeliever swears, it really doesn’t apply to that. It was given to the people of God; we are the ones who risk “taking His name in vain”. Some leaders can, and do, use scriptures to their own end, albeit not by the Spirit.
That brings me to “love believes all things”. I have heard it a few times in these posts. When a person must use that scripture to convince you of something, it is wrong. And then to point out that you are not loving if you don’t believe that person, that is wrong. The scriptures should never be used by a person to prove his innocence, to validate his “vision” or anything else for that matter, that is the flesh. May we all continue to learn from these things.
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I have been a musician since 1965 and I have been involved with writing Christian music since 1971. I am a product of the Jesus Revolution. If you saw the movie, it is a story about my wife and I, there are so many similarities. We were part of a group of newly saved young people, and we had a key role in starting a church in the early 1970’s in northern Illinois. I played at church, and I played in a Christian band that played in parks, campgrounds and coffeehouses all around the Midwest. In 1977, the band traveled to Denmark and Sweden for a 5-week outreach. Those were exciting times for us. It was all about outreach and preaching the Gospel.
It wasn’t until about 1981 that I had ever heard the term “worship leader”. Someone we were visiting told us we needed to come to church with them because they have a great worship leader. I had never heard of that before. In those days, we just had an overhead projector and a bunch of musicians sitting off to the side.
I have always thought that “worship leader” was such a lofty title. Can you be a worship leader and not be a worshiper of God? Yes you can! In many churches you can be hired to lead purely based on your talent. It used to be in church that you could be a minister of music, someone who led the congregation in praise unto God. But that is not such a lofty title.
Recently, there have been famous worship leaders who have come out and said they now doubt Christianity. Huh? How did they get a worship leader position? When churches hire musicians, is it based more on talent rather than their real walk with the Lord? I think so! We are now so far removed from what real worship is that if you ask someone, there are like deer in headlights.
The modern church has thrown praise and worship into the same bucket, we make no distinction between the two. We have minimized what true Biblical worship is, to our own hurt. I used to hear it all the time, people go to specific churches because they like the worship there. I then ask them; you mean you like the music?? Invariably, that is really what they mean, and it is OK to prefer what you like, but lets not call it worship, call it praise.
Being a true worshiper of God has nothing to do with what you like, or your taste in music. It has to do with what your walk with the Lord, your obedience, your sacrifice, taking up the cross daily, preferring one another in love and bowing before Him. When Abraham was going to sacrifice Isaac, when he was going on the hill to worship, the was no music. We are losing our understanding of what Biblical worship is! If that is lost, we are at peril.
If you love to praise the Lord, do it with gusto with your preference of music. Enjoy it! But let’s rethink worship and how much more serious it is. When it comes to worship, God sets the standard. When it comes to praise, we have liberty to have music we prefer.
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There may be certain reasons calling for the trial of faith rather than the reward of faith.
Spurgeon
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If the Holy Spirit was withdrawn from the church today, 95 per cent of what we do would go on and no one would know the difference. If the Holy Spirit had been withdrawn from the New Testament church, 95 per cent of what they did would stop, and everybody would know the difference.
A W Tozer
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I recently went to a church where very few people in the congregation were singing. In many of the churches that I am familiar with, that is the case. The musicians are basically playing songs that are somewhat unknown to the congregation, so they just all stand there and listen, like they would at a concert. Then there is some light applause after each song.
Have we have lost our way? The purpose of having a time of praise and worship is to allow the congregation to lift their voices in one accord unto the Lord, to exalt His name. We are to be “filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father”. It is a participatory event that is both God-ward, and meant to encourage your brothers and sisters in the Lord. In many churches that is not happening anymore. I remember hearing from a British pastor years ago, “the musicians have hijacked the worship”. Boy was he right!
Praise and worship leaders have lost their way. They have lost it by focusing on the music, on the groove they can create and the vibe. It is all about the latest popular praise songs on the internet and in many cases created for one reason, that reason is to create a hit song, just like the world. We have pushed the Spirit out out and replaced it with a hit. No wonder no one is singing, it is more like a concert than a praise and worship service.
Praise and worship leaders have to get back to singing songs that the congregation knows. They are to lead the congregation, not perform for the congregation. That might mean singing an old hymn or simpler songs. They have a responsibility to make sure the lyrics of the song are theologically correct. It is not just about being a musician. Too many times a church picks a musician just because he is talented. What about the spiritual maturity of that musician? Getting up and leading praise and worship on a Sunday morning can go to your head. It can be exciting to be on a stage, believe me, it can go to your head. The concern has to be, bringing the congregation to a time of praise. Making the congregation lift their voices to the Lord in one accord, God is worthy of that. That is what a leader should do! Play songs that the congregation knows, play songs that are theologically correct, playing songs that are easy sing and easy to follow. People in the congregation need that. The congregation is filled with people who can sing and with people who really can sing very well. Some are musical and some are not. Some can sing on key, others can not. As praise and worship leaders, we need to be sensitive to all of that. I ask you all, please take heed to this!!!
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Is it possible to know God? We are far removed from the days when Jesus walked the earth. It would have been wonderful to see Him, to see Him having mercy on people and healing them. And His wisdom when He spoke would have been unsurpassed. And to see Him after He rose from the dead, that would have been amazing. It would have been much easier to believe in Him then than it is now, in our troubled world. In John 20 when Thomas still doubted, he saw Jesus risen from the dead. Jesus told Thomas to put his hand in His side and Thomas exclaimed, “My Lord and my God”. What did Jesus say then? Verse 29 says “Because you have seen Me, have you now believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed”.
It is a prophetic word to our generation, to all of us who did not see what Thomas saw, “Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed”. For those of us who have believed in Jesus without seeing Him in the flesh, Jesus has pronounced a blessing, a blessing on us! We are blessed when we come to know Him.
How do we really know that we have come to know Him? This how we know, if we accept Jesus and obey His commands set forth in the scriptures. 1 John 2:3-6 says “By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever follows His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says that he remains in Him ought, himself also, walk just as He walked”.
When I came to know Him, the way that I walk changed! I used to walk to please myself, doing whatever was good for me. When I came to know Him, I wanted to walk as He walked on the earth. We are to keep His commandments. If we keep them, that is how we know that we have come to know Him. In our hearts, we desire to be like Jesus. It is a hard saying, “If you say you have come to know Him but do not obey Him, you are a liar”. Those are His words, not mine. It is possible then to have some religious beliefs and not really know Him. There is a kind of Christian religion that embraces some of the moral aspects of the teachings of Jesus, but in reality does not fully obey Him. Matthew 7:21 says “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter“.
We should search our hearts and seek to know Him better thru understanding His words. And we should work toward being obedient to those words. Let those words of Jesus spread in to all areas of our lives, and live in a manner worthy of the calling that He has on us.
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